Chris: Pilates business owners, welcome to The Pilates Business Podcast, brought to you by the people who own, operate, and instruct in a successful clinical Pilates studio in Australia.

Our mission is to help you to discover Pilates business assets to build your clinical Pilates business success. And now, here's your host, David Gunther.

David Gunther: Let's start with number A on my list of A to f failures.

Attracting and retaining top quality instructors failures. Have you got any stories that you could share with us about a failure? People like to hear about,

Carla Ricalis: I don't have anything

David: can I start? I'll start with a,

Carla: Start. Yeah. Oh, you start, go

David: so in, in COVID we'd been really helping some instructors build up who were student instructors who'd come through, and we had some excellent instructors and

coming into COVID and they were just, doing that transition of being on five days a week in a day job to four days a week, three days a week, two days a week.

and then COVID hit. and there's lockdowns and shutdowns and all of that. And I really do remember one instructor asking me, David, what's going to happen? 'Cause I'd always, I've been saying, oh, there's always work in play. Well, There's gonna be plenty of work.

And, because we need instructors all the time. And, that honestly was what we have and what we have now. However, with COVID and with the pandemic and Lockdowns I had to be honest and say I don't know. You're a casual work. We dunno where this is going.

We've never seen this before. and

that instructor pretty much, threw up their hands and went I've gotta go. I've gotta leave the industry, at least for the moment. I think they came back to the industry later, but not with us, unfortunately. And that was heartbreaking for her, heartbreaking for me.

Because, that journey of a potential instructor who could be fantastic on the team,

who was on the team. And then we've lost that instructor because I was honest,

Carla: Yeah.

David: in,

Carla: I mean,

David: in my view, maybe not supportive enough, view, you know?

Carla: Well, I mean, I would just have to say I don't think that's not. Being supportive. I think it was just like, nobody knew what was going on. You know, trying to manage a business and, you know, but then also

David: Our responsibility was, yeah, to try to.

Survive,

as a business for us as our income for the business owners for the clients and the instructors who had had work and wanted to and the Australian government was actually terrific in terms of a lot of support could have done with more what we did get was good and did help us to survive.

But yeah, it was a different sort of challenge that one. And,

unfortunately we,

failed with being able to, you know, there's, so many stepping stones along the journey to becoming a qualified useful instructor

Carla: right. Yeah. Yeah. when I look at failures and I, don't want to, but I mean, everything's kind of, in a way, been sort of as has that I'm sure, like an opportunity to learn. I mean, I I'm just thinking not so much a failure, but, you know, just, for me, so one related to COVID, which again, is not so much a failure, but it's just like the, studio space and, and we're just getting back to now like this non sort of sequestered sort of sections in the studio where, in COVID we very much had almost like workstations. so, you know, people were spread out and there were certain distance between them. And, when I did that back in, I guess 2022, and we had so many closures like during, and I sold several reformers, which, not for the financial aspect of it, but just more, or let's just get them out of the space because we're going to, spread out and we'll just sort of cross that bridge of getting more reformers in the space when we. Get back at it. And I've always sort of regretted that just because I ended up buying reformers of course. But again, you know, was a more expensive, it was a greater expense after COVID, like everything else in the world, you know? So not so much now, but just that sort of rash decision making of, you know,

David: some, sometimes the best decision is to do nothing.

Carla: right. And I should have just left it because the dynamic with the instructors, and this has shifted, like honestly, I have a very, very excellent team, a very positive team of instructors. They all work well together. They all are self guided, self-motivating.

They c communicate well with each other. But I know that just even myself being in the space and working in this space, you get used to having this whole little section, these private little Pilate studios as do your clients. Well, this is, this is it. Right? And so this is where I've had to sort of like, it's been a little bit of a, not a, like they all understand. They all know. But now it's like we need to get more people working simultaneously in the space in order to keep the space, you know, in order to, so, that sort of rash decision of selling equipment at the time. I didn't think that through as well as I probably could have.

David: I've got another story about where we failed and taking my responsibility in that process on my shoulders there. With, and these were, I guess they were particularly young student instructors and that my mistake which I had led and helped the business lead was to want it more.

Then the student instructor really wanted it and therefore put more in, so contributing to the cost of their course in one case, I think we paid for a course. and because we believed in them more than they believed in themselves or us, obviously. And they weren't taking on the responsibility.

So we were taking on More responsibility

Carla: Mm-hmm.

David: that that was a mistake.

Carla: Yeah. I have in the past considered that. but I've more or less, like taken instructors who haven't fully completed their training. So let's say they've done that and reformer, they're certified, they've done the exam, but their rate is gonna reflect that and there is a commitment for them to do the Cadillac, the chair, the barrels, the injuries and special populations course that that, EW puts out. And there's an expectation to that. And I have, have experience that, you know, very strict with like, this be completed or you need to be enrolled in this course at such a time because if it's an open-ended get it done whenever you wanna get it done.

It ends up that I've had a couple of instructors who have never gotten it done and, consequently their commitment to being in, the profession was not what I thought it was gonna be. And, they ended up leaving and, so, I've learned that when I'm hiring instructors, if they haven't fully. Done certification and they're in the midst that I need very concrete deadlines. Otherwise, just keeping it open-ended is not

good for,

David: Yeah,

a concrete deadline that Claire always encourages student instructors with is the exam, the final exam, and setting that date and making it a hard date that like, this is it, this is the time when you're gonna do the

Carla: yeah.

David: If you don't do the exam, then you've failed as well.

but

Carla: Yeah. it is true. It's true. So I've, sort of learned that way because being in such a need for instructors, you sort of compromise what you know, your expectations, right?

David: always that temptation, isn't it? Yeah.

Carla: Yeah. Especially if they're good, right? Especially if they're strong and they have potential, and you see that and it's well, okay, let's start you, and then we'll, you know, so,

David: One, one of the advantages that we have with the semi-private coming back. Briefly to that is that it really helps with team teaching. So it helps with bringing on a newer instructor who, you know, if we've got three people in a semi-private or say four people and say, we've got this student instructor who Claire can.

Supervise and they're almost qualified. They might be about to do the exam, they've got that hard date set up in a month or two's time and they're pretty much ready. And they probably could do it on their own, but it's better to be supervised. They can take on the responsibility and be paid to look after one of the people.

So there'd be five, in the team taught semi-private instead of four by one instructor. There's one instructor and one student instructor who's pretty much almost qualified. And that student instructor is being supervised by the lead instructor. and then when they're ready, they can have two people.

And then when they're ready, perhaps. When they're qualified. At that point, when they've successfully completed the exam maybe three people and they're still getting that, that not just supervision, but feedback and the confidence builds gradually rather than having to go from, down here to jump off the top tower into the civic pool as

we used to

Carla: yeah,

yeah, I think for us, with our studio being, well established, there's a number of instructors, I've been teaching for close to 30 years, but I have instructors who have been teaching for 20 years and 25 years. So for us, there's that opportunity for, a little bit of, it's not structured mentoring, but we do ask new instructors who come in that they observe and watch instructors with their clients, provided the clients, are comfortable with them doing that.

But those new instructors to be teaching at the same level that the instructors are. it's just not gonna happen, you know? and so, only up until. Gosh, not very long ago, but all in fact, I wanna say, I think after COVID, I had everybody at the same price package, so myself, a new instructor, everybody had the same rates.

you know, and you learn these things as you sort of, and, so now what I have is, tiered packaging, and that just gives everybody breathing room a little bit because, if you're gonna have somebody who has 20 plus years of experience, well then the rates you pay are reflective of that compared to somebody who just, got certified six

months ago.

David: We have a similar process with our private sessions for that initial onboarding of clients into their program where they do the two privates. So we've got, Very experienced 25 years of experience. There with Claire at 400 and. $40 for two private sessions and the writing of the program.

Whereas then we've got 330 at the next level. And

then we've got a level below that. We don't currently have any instructors at that level but then with semi-private it works very well. Also in that we pay bonuses if for instructors that get more than the two in a semi-private.

So they get a bonus at three and they get a bonus at four and very occasionally 'cause our maximum is four, but very occasionally there's five. But they get bonuses for those extra people. So it sort of is self-selecting for both the instructors if they work a bit harder.

but they get paid significantly more particularly if they have four in the session. And, for the clients, if they want that instructor who is, then they're self-selecting too into busier sessions because they want that instructor's popular, that instructor gets paid more because there's more people in their session.

So, so that

self-selection is another benefit that I thought.

Carla: Yeah, No, that's a great, part of that model similar with our, group class series to incentivize instructors and clients. I mean, you're not the group class series. It's the same rate right across in terms of what a client's paying per class, per series.

but for the instructors, there's an incentive based on the number of people who sign up. So if it's full, then you're making this amount. But if it's not full, you're making this amount. And the idea is that I'm looking at it from. The percentages I set have been set based on, well, our space is quite small for our, our group our reformer classes.

So there's four reformers, but if you only get three people in your group class, that fourth reformer BASIcally remains unused. 'Cause to put a private there, I can't, so it's a cost to me. so that's gonna be reflected in their

pay. So it works in their favor to sort of, for lack of a better word, hustle, to get a fourth person in there, because you're gonna get a larger piece of the action in, terms of, what they're getting paid for the, the group class.

So,

David: And we do the same with our group classes, which are MAT classes which are again, pretty small. They might be from about three or four people up to 10. because we have a hybrid model where there could only be ever six in the studio because it's only a certain size.

But. There could be another six online, so there could be a dozen people. And there's bonuses for the instructor for having, more than a certain number in that hybrid model. And again, that, works well for the studio, for the clients and for the instructors as well, because yeah, you definitely wanna be able to let's talk more about the successes and maybe, when, you're onto and what are the steps along the way with helping a student instructor who's doing the course onto that ability to actually join your team as a useful instructor.

They're contributing to the team and enjoying it themselves and, helping clients

Carla: yeah, I've, found that the more systems in place, and this is something that, you know, as we've grown, like I have a studio manager, so I've been able to really sort of define, you know, the role is a manager, a studio coordinator, and my role is director of, of the studio. And so, when instructors come and apply to the studio to, work with us, they're seeing the added value of the education and the guidance that they're going to, Get along the way from myself and from other instructors in the studio. So who I regularly, especially my more experienced ones, I will contract them to create a workshop for an in-house workshop for studio instructors.

So if I know they have a specific interest that is applicable or, informs how they teach Pilates, I'll ask them to do maybe a two or three hour workshop so it's not always me. So there's sort of, again, instructors are seeing the value that's in, the studio.

I think that, the success of the studio is largely due to the instructors that we have, but being able to I guess like extract. From, everybody's talent and ability to contribute and then use that in a more structured way so that newer instructors, again, it's more than just a, job.

It's more than just teaching Pilates. They're coming in, they're learning, they're seeing what other instructors are doing. like. I have a studio manager, but she's primarily remote. So she comes into the studio maybe twice a month. So the instructors are very, involved in the management of, the actual space and of their clients.

we use our software as MBO and they have just as much access as, the manager does, maybe not as much just in terms of like, you know, revenue and reports and stuff like that, but, they're able to go in and. manage their schedule, and not that they do, but access everybody else's schedule as well.

So there's a, a large amount of, trust and, independence. that's part of the studio. I've worked at a number of different studios, but it's always like, these are all adults. they're all adults trying to make a living. And so you have to respect that and, pay accordingly and manage accordingly. But I think one of the pitfalls that I've seen in studios is when they try to over control or they're sort of, working with children or, or, or, you know, it's, it is sort of that mentality cause they're teaching so it's something that I just try to let them have their independence and

try not to micromanage

everything.

David: yeah, I think

that's great. What I'm hearing there is that you are allowing your instructors to take on an appropriate level of responsibility, and your expectation is that they will fulfill that level of responsibility very well and that even, go a bit further, perhaps take on a bit more responsibility.

For example, we've got an excellent instructor who was a client of ours for many years before she then became a student instructor, and now she's gotten so good at being an instructor. She's fantastic. And she's taking on the role of it as a mentor in the course with Polestar that's hosted in our studio.

It's just so satisfying for us to see instructors taking on that responsibility and I think for good instructors, that is something that we're looking for. Okay, I would not necessarily to be overconfident, and I can do everything, which you sometimes get, but I would like to take on that level of responsibility and then build from that to the next level and be confident with those levels because, we've got enough responsibility, haven't we, as studio owners and having to instruct, our own clients and do all of the different things that we do with the business and with clients.

The other thing that you mentioned there early on which I think we maybe should dive a bit deeper on, and you mentioned it again a little bit later, is system. So you use a scheduling management system, but you have other systems in and around that as well. And I think, that's probably.

Underestimated by new instructors. It's a little bit hard to communicate to them about how good that is to be in a studio that has that sort of systemized systematic approach or systems place. Because what it means is it doesn't look like anything's really happening because everything just happens.

Bang. 'cause that's the way you've done it. And if you like us, which I assume you probably are, nothing's ever perfect. you're always looking for how do we continuously improve but also, we do it this way because if we do it a different way, we've found it just doesn't work that well.

So this is why we have these simple processes. would you like to speak to that some more?

Carla: Well, I think that's been trial and error and I think like when the studio first opened, and like I've put this, on my LinkedIn is, I've been everything from like, the cleaner to the bookkeeper to, the manager to, you know, everything.

So, then as you start to get busier, you start to get a little more established. when I think of a system I think, of the bookkeeper, like that is a system and there's a system in place. You know, she uses QuickBooks and, that is something that's very sort of, structured and organized.

So everybody gets their tax forms at the end of the year and that type of thing. there's a certain expectation of how their invoices. Should look, not for aesthetics, but more just so that the information that we need to put into the system that the bookkeeper uses is there.

 'cause it's all about efficiency on, that level. So when we're looking at sort of the behind the scenes, same with the cleanliness in the studio, there's just certain things that have to be in place in order for the experience for the clients. And, and what they're paying is, surpassed, right?

 so the bathroom, the floors, the front door, the mirrors, the window, you know, all this sort of stuff. But then the systems for, the instructors, as I, mentioned, they're a great team of instructors. which is good because. If somebody new comes in and they're not quite familiar with that and, and most instructors working, if they're new and they're, working at several different studios just to sort of establish themself. It's a very distinct experience working at our studio because there is communication systems, the chat groups on given days with given instructors, you know, if there's seven instructors in there, they need to communicate. I listen, I need to be on the Cadillac at noon because my client can't use a reformer.

 these type of things. I'm trying to think, you know, that's a system, a system to our clients with our newsletters and communicating like what we're doing and our group class schedule and a little sort of information about, what we've. been up to, or what's changing in the studio or what's new in the studio and stuff.

So all these sort of things have become systems just in terms of implementing them into the, running of, of, the studio. So we don't, just put out a newsletter when we feel like it, we plan these quarterly newsletters. I have, the Pilates resource catalog, which is instructor focused, but that recently merged into our studio newsletter to be called Elevate. And, that gives the best of both worlds because it allows us to show our clients what we're working on and where we are in the industry in terms of, the type of studio that we're striving to be, but then also show instructors out in the world the type of studio that

we're. It striving to be, you know, it is all part of that sort of cohesiveness of, running a,

studio

David: That's all excellent. And two big points I take out of that too. What you're creating there with your continuous improvement and integrating your client's access to that resource of repertoire is that building that closer link between the best source of.

instructors that you'll find in the community, which is your own clientele coming through doing that and becoming more like instructors and then you giving them the confidence to perhaps take that next step and still you've got all the systems there, which is really important.

And again, I'd reiterate the point I don't think that instructors and particularly new instructors and particularly younger, new instructors necessarily might appreciate how much and you probably don't appreciate actually how much work and how many systems you do actually have. If you did an audit Of all your systems,

we

Carla: Right. Of everything. when I was saying that, I was thinking like, oh my God, I could list them all off. and we do, we really do, And sometimes I worry, like what I just said earlier, I don't like to micromanage, I've had instructors who have worked at our studio and they've relocated to another city for whatever

reasons, and, they've written and said, I can't even tell you the type of studio. Like, it's not clean. Nobody's putting the equipment away. The scheduling is a nightmare.

It's overbooked or nobody's closing the studio. You know, just stuff. And I think just the type of person I am anyways I prioritize those things. I just think that's just my personality to be a little bit more focused on those things.

But at the end of the day, we're working with people and we're teaching people about their bodies and we're, getting them connected into movement patterns that perhaps they never thought they could do. And so if the person teaching that is in a space and the space that they're teaching it in is, cohesive to that and contributes to that, is just gonna be a better experience overall.

You know, if if you're, in a dirty space, then even if, everybody says it's fine or, you know, it doesn't matter to me, I think it still contributes to a little bit of less than a great workout. if the instructor is in a disorganized environment, that.

sort of stress of like, well, what can I get and who else is gonna be in here?

Am I gonna be able to get on the reformer? And, it really sort of breeds this kind of, it's not a te a necessary tension.

and everybody's just looking out for themselves, as

opposed to everybody's kind of contributing to the overall experience.

David: it competitive rather

Carla: Right. Yeah. as time goes on, and I, do think they have a bigger value beyond just, organizing. Like they, do contribute to the overall client experience and, instructor experience of

working

there.

David: And you also touched on something that I think is very important too. the willingness to allow the freedom with your instructors to have creativity and deal with issues as they come along. Certainly to be able to ask questions of you or other senior instructors when necessary, but to be able to take on that role of being Yeah, that freedom as well, because, they're not in there working with you in a Pilates studio to be an office worker or to be an automaton.

They're a production line. They're there because they wanna connect with people and help people and they wanna bring what they have and their creativity to it. So being able to. Encourage that having a, a clean, systemized approach and space and all business running efficiently is terrific.

As long as it can also allow that creativity

and, responsibility.

Carla: Well,

that's what we're striving for, but yeah.

David: yeah. Well, we, We've had a fantastic conversation,

and, really pleased to have been able to connect with you, Carla, about this.

Carla: No,

I wanted to say thank you. I mean, I think it's great what you're doing with this because I think further to our point about different Pilates, approaches or different Pilates instructors with different backgrounds, it's kind of like we're all these spokes in, the wheel.

And you sort of, to a certain extent your podcast is, the hub of it a bit. Just bringing people together to talk about these universal things. I, don't think there's any small Pilate studio in the world that isn't impacted by this shift in the industry. And so it's great to be able to hear these different discussions.

David: Well, well, thank you, Carla, because, I'd definitely like to have you on again for, you know, other, if, if you're at some, at some stage, so that, again, the industry benefits , and we, produce something out there that's useful to people.

Chris: You have been listening to the Pilates business podcast with David Gunther. If you are enjoying the show, let us know by subscribing and leaving a review. For more information or if you have any Pilates business questions, visit www.business.com.au..